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RESOURCES: Affiliate Link How To Win Friends & Influence People Google Earth RoofingThatPays.com/review Conklin Roofing Systems DISCLAIMER: These notes were automatically transcribed and NOT grammatically corrected. Read at your own risk! I'll say it again you know, if you don't focus on quality, you don’t focus on servicing your clients, you're going to go out of business in a year maybe within a few months. As a contractor, you know commercial roofing is an amazing opportunity that rewards hard work, but you also see huge issues emerging like finding time to bid jobs, hiring motivated employees, rocketing insurance fees and rising lead costs. On Season One of the roofing that pays podcast, experienced contractors will share their secrets to what's working in the exploding Commercial Roofing industry. Welcome to roofing that pays! Lavern and his twin brother operate a commercial roofing company in Ohio and Pennsylvania. Welcome to the show. Hey, it's good to be on. Let's go back to your growing up years, your family's occupation. How was it growing up? What did your family do? My dad, he was a landscaper and lawn care when we grew up. That's all we knew. Always after school. We always went out help them through the summer, we always help them till my brother and I we started getting to the age where we knew we were going to be out of school, we went for a private school that we were out earlier than most what happened. We lived in western Pennsylvania where they get a lot of snow. And he wasn't sure what to do with three or four boys that didn't have anything to do for the winter months, when we couldn't do lawn care. He sold the lawn care company. And we all started working for a storage builder storage shed builder there locally. And we worked there for a number of years, my dad actually worked there for between 10 and 15 years, my twin brother Linford worked out around five or six years. And I worked there for around two years. And then I moved on and started working for a construction company where we just did general contracting anything from building new homes, to putting driveways in almost anything you can think of. So that's where I got my construction background. I had five brothers, three sisters that we had a lively bunch of home how to get done at home, we worked hard. We had a little 10-acre farm tomatoes, had our own cow. You ended up running a garage door installation company, how did you end up getting into that? One of my uncles was working for a very successful garage door company in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. And he installed doors and he was like, Well, hey, why don't you guys just start hanging doors. He said, it's not that complicated to start your own business and starting a door company. That age 20, my twin brother and I decided we're going to start hanging garage doors part time, we did a weekend and evening that are day to day job. And we just slowly started building that up, we made a decision to just take a leap and we added general construction to our garage door business. Then we started a construction business alongside or door business. That's kind of the transition for when we work in our early age 20 we started a company starting garage doors and then slowly granted on marketing dropping within our business. You ended up getting into commercial roofing. And then as well, how did you learn about Commercial Roofing? It's kind of funny looking back and we had friends that were twins came to my brother and met him I think it was a at a church service after where they were just discussing why you always do you know, chat and wonder what we work and what we do. They found out we do construction. And they said, Hey, you know, you guys need to look into going Commercial Roofing. And we were like, We didn't even know there was commercial roofs out there. That's how small we thought back then we didn't even think Commercial Roofing. And I still remember saying, you know, talking to my twin brother Linford and saying, you know, is there even a flat roof around here, like, I mean, what kind of business that flat roofing, commercial roofing is or even works. During that time we were they were the ones that introduced us good. They came down actually had a meeting at my twin brothers house and just sat down, he kind of showed us the systems and gave us a number of you know, profit margins, labor costs and all that. And we were like, Hey, we don't have anything to lose. Let's look into doing this thing. We just slowly started growing into going from advertise. And that's how we got started doing commercial. What was the process you used to get up and running so quickly? There's a lot of different things. And I'm sure we could have grown faster. But we did have a really good year, the first year, we added the commercial roofing side to our existing business, we didn't just jump out and completely stop doing what we were doing. But we did have a very good year that first year that commercial roofing usually doesn't happen that fast. And I'll give the credit back to us following the plan. They simply told us spend some money on advertising, do some cold calling, and some direct mail campaigns and trade shows. That's what I would try to do, we basically follow the plan. And the plan was really simple with basically spend a little bit on advertising, make sure that people understand what you do that you do Commercial Roofing in front of people, and then bid as many as we can sell the job and then do the best quality work we can. And we kind of followed those three, four steps, it just took off from there the first year, we did really have a good year compared to previously just doing residential. Let's talk about one of your biggest challenges in a commercial roofing job or running a commercial roofing business. And the reason for this is so that we can learn what is something that we can learn from that you went through that and help us avoid mistakes. There we are challenges business, business or life when the light without challenges, there's a lot of different things that come into play. One of the biggest challenges we still faced, and I feel it's one of the biggest one that any company faces is communicating in the correct way with the people that they rub shoulders with. And if you really, really think about it, dig deep. Everything we do in business, in life, is communicating with people around us, it doesn't matter if it's in church doesn't matter if it's in family. It doesn't matter what kind of in life, it's relating with people. So communication in the correct way, I would definitely say is the biggest challenge. And if we don't learn how to do that correctly, your business isn't going to work. It doesn't matter if it's commercial roofing. And it doesn't matter if you're raising rabbits, it doesn't matter what you're doing. If you're not communicating in the right way. If you just look back communication starts way back, even before you start the project, like let's just say we are jumping into the commercial roofing project, the very first thing that our mentors told us to do was go out and make the very first phone call, we had to make the very first phone call we had to make is a communication skill. And then especially when it comes in the time to sell the job and getting the job that your communication skill isn't where it needs to be. You're not never, you're never going to sell the job unless you did on under project. So that would I would definitely say that's the biggest challenge is that learning how to communicate properly with other people. This is just a very, very simple thing. And this is an example. We've had times in the very beginning over the years in the commercial industry, if you don't communicate where they want you to set up and you drive in there, let's say it's a flat field, and you think it's okay, just to drive in there and set up, we've had the experience where someone got really, really upset with us just simply because we drove in the wrong spot when we came to set up at that job site. And he started that's just a very, very small example. But that was like the first day on the job, you made a wrong impression without building owner. And it's wrong communication. All we do at this point is before we ever get out with the employees, before we ever send anyone out to start the start the project, we make sure that we have exactly where the setup location is where they want us to set out where the water spigot is, you know, every detail the before you even get out to the job, just simple communication, a phone call and saying hey, Bob, this is Lavern here, without our roofing were you playing that we staged this area where we can work. So that's just one example. And just a little example, but just that example of not communicating properly before the roof was started, could have ruined our relationship with that building, or just because of that one little thing. Thinking back, what is one thing you did differently if you were starting over in commercial roofing? Following a little bit more of a roadmap, having some systems in place and having a better plan in place. And that even goes up to more even quality work back when we first got started. We were brand new in the commercial industry. And we just went out and put roofs on like, we just we decided there's no option, we're just going to, you know, do it and then learn from the mistakes. Looking back, I think we if we would just ask a couple more questions to our mentors, we will save ourselves a lot of headache, and build a lot better relationships by simply having a little bit more of a system in place. And by following a little bit more of a roadmap of people that lead the way before we were in the industry. What sets you apart from other contractors in your area? One thing that I think every one of us and we do especially here in our own roofing company is we focus very, very highly or very hard on quality, and focus on serving our clients to the very best of our ability even go past that. Like even if it doesn't make sense. If you think the client is off, you know, somewhere on the left leg somewhere, if he's not even right, we do everything we can to service that client and do the very, very best quality work we can, because if you really look at it, quality and service to the customer is one of the number one things simply because if you don't have clients, you're going to get out there's this take a look at your income coming in and keeping your business what's the number one thing is, it's not your office girl, it's not any secretaries. It's not the sales people, which I know they're all they all have their place. But the number one thing in setting yourself apart, and keeping the income coming is have a happy client to the very, very best of your ability. And like I said, you need to go 10 times further than you think that you should to make that client happy. I feel that's what sets us apart in our company. Our number one goal is to make our clients very, very happy and show them that we care about them and try to give them the best return on their investment by us being able to service them. And so we'll service a client will service a client will service the client service client. And when we're putting that roof on, we go far, far beyond what's required even for specs, because we want to give them the best quality roof that we possibly can. I recently put together a short ebook on different marketing ideas. And one of those chapters I just touched briefly on the idea of “gifting”, sending out gifts to your clients or using gifts even to start a relationship with a prospect. I know you do quite a bit of gift giving in your business, do you mind touching just a minute on what you do as far as giving gifts? It comes back to servicing that client making that client happy. And we feel we actually we feel they become a lot more clients actually become brand, we have done a lot of different things. But one thing we very consistently do at least once a year and it's usually somewhere between Thanksgiving and Christmas, we get homemade bread, which everyone loves homemade bread. And we'll get homemade jam from an Amish store Mennonite store and we'll put that together and usually either put a hat in or a couple pens or you know what we change that up a little bit. But it's always bread is always jam and every company different. There are clients that if we skip them that year, I'd say we had done a roof with them for three years or so. And we happen not to get up to their locations. And you know, we didn't do a roof with them for within three years or so. We've actually had clients call us up. Or if they happen to meet us or phone conversation, they said, Hey, you miss me this year, I miss my bread and jam, it just builds that that relationship with them. And it and like I said it doesn't have to be bread and jam, it can be anything that fits for you. But we feel it's very key to and we personally hand deliver those and I know different sized businesses, you won't be able to do that. But my twin brother and I, we split it up and we'll go spend at least three to five or even seven days on the road through winter to for sure. Make sure we actually personally hand deliver that we have a system in place. If it's five year old client, we might not get out a year, but we have life. But the key is you have to build that personal relationship with them. And then we're also very keen on writing handwritten thank you notes throughout the year. If he gets you to do a repair through the summer, we almost always and we don't like to miss this. But we'll write him a thank you card for giving us that work. And send it in the mail note, you know, after your job is done. In two or three days, we're going to get a handwritten note from the owners thanking them for the job that they gave you. You know, it didn't him. That's why we keep saying if they're keeping your business alive, they're giving you the work. It doesn't matter how busy you are, we should be thankful for every single job that comes in. And we need to show that thanks to them and just build that close relationship with them and they're never going to get anywhere else. You purchase your roofing products from Conklin, you're also one of the top contractors for roofing volume, Preferred Contractor title, you've earned a bunch of awards with the company; What would you say to someone that feels Conklin’s direct sales model ads cost to the roofing products? And those companies that do retail, spend just as much or more on advertising, doing it the conventional way that Conklin does by doing it with direct sales. And by paying us as distributors. That commission, if you look at those numbers, often actually pays a little less or almost exactly the same than like Walmart, Kmart, Sears and I know some of the going out of business, but the regular retail sales companies, they spend just as much or more if you break it down by percentage wise, that Conklin does by paying their distributors and doing direct sales. What has Commercial Roofing allowed you to do for yourself and your family, that you couldn't have done before? We do love the Conklin roofing systems. And we feel with the training that they do gave us and you don't have to use their training or whatever. But we really appreciate how much time and effort they put into training us and having training set up. And just simply the commercial world if I look at the Commercial Roofing, compared to the Residential Roofing, which we were big into; The profit margins consistently are bigger in the commercial roofing. And there's basically one factor that comes into play that makes that happen. If you look at one Residential Roof, you might have 5,000 square feet, you might have 10,000 square feet with a really big one. Commercial, we've had five-acre roofs that we worked on it with three or four people. Basically, the time that you spend per square foot on the commercial industry, compared to the amount of time you spend in the residential is way less, you get a lot more square foot done on a commercial roofing you do on a residential brief, like if you're charging per square foot or whatever per square, however you're doing it, the profit margins are just a lot higher, because you can do a lot more square foot in way less amount of time in the commercial thing you can in the residential. So that's one of the key factors. And then also Commercial Roofing. There's just you're in the commercial world and who doesn't want to be in the commercial world, the jobs are bigger, there are a lot easier to work with. Most of the clients are easy to work with because they’re business people just like we are residential, you're actually working with someone's personal home personal life. And they're usually a lot harder to work for than a real business owner that understands business understands profit and understands what you're doing. And all he wants is a professional roofer out there that's doing a professional job and making his roof not leak. So those are just a couple of things. The commercial industry for us completely changed our lives, the profit margins are a lot higher. And it's given us a lot more time to do a little more what we want to do I have a family, I have a lot more time to spend with the family. If I just take it back when we were doing residential, like we literally cannot afford to take off. Now it's more of a choice, I just have to make the choice to take off. But we can easily take off if I want to take off next week with what the commercial industry is done for me. I can take off next week without feeling it. We have a nonprofit organization, we actually helped start here in Ohio. And that is another passion I have is with more income. And I know there's pros and cons here depends how you want to twist it. But I feel as someone making a good income that they should be sharing a lot more and a lot more if you get back to God and support some of the needs. I mean, there's so many needs in the world that we had kind of a calling to start a children's ministry here in Ohio. And that's actually up and running. Without the income that we're making doing commercial common roofing. There's probably no way not saying anything's possible with God. But there's probably no way that this children's ministry we are up and running at this point. Without L&L Roofing been able to, you know, supply the need, buy a house, you know there are a lot of expenses starting nonprofits. And without that without the commercial owners who without using the common products, I'm 99% sure that filter the ministry wouldn't be up and running. Appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule and your busy day. And just four short questions with four short answers. What I call the lightning round… Is your favorite product coatings or membranes? We love the coatings. What is a favorite app you use in your business? We use Google Earth a lot. What's your favorite business book? How to Win Friends and Influence People. If the trip was free? Would you rather spend time at the mountains or at the ocean? At the ocean. Thanks for listening to roofing that pays. before you go, can we ask a huge favor? The biggest thing that helps spread this message is when you rate and review us. That tells the platforms we're doing something right. Take a moment to rate and review us at roofingthatpays.com/review. That's roofingthatpays.com/review. Thanks so much. Until next time, do more roofing that pays!