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A lot has been said about branding and behavior at the individual or tribal level, but perhaps even more interesting is how these concepts work at the government level. How can government bodies use different psychological and branding techniques to change behaviors around work, life, and crisis situations like the one we’re living in now with COVID-19? Even more importantly, how can choice, perception and permission be leveraged for a more fruitful society after a crisis has passed? Rory Sutherland, prolific writer and author of ‘Alchemy’, Vice Chairman of Ogilvy and TED Speaker whose videos have received over 6.5 million views talks to us about the psychology that is often missing from economic models, and how behavior can be profoundly changed not by punitive enforcement, but by speaking to our very human inclinations. Rory’s work has boldly explored human psychology and behavior for global airlines, international conglomerates and of course, governments. He calls himself an anarchist, some have called him a contrarian, and NPR has labeled him one of the leading minds in the world of branding.In our conversation with him, we explore models of human behavior, social norms, belief systems and the nuance of what he calls America’s “gloriously optimistic consumer base”.Links to interesting things mentioned in this episode:What’s The Difference Between Real and Perceived Value?: https://www.npr.org/2014/05/09/308756512/what-s-the-difference-between-real-and-perceived-value Alchemy: The Dark Art and Curious Science of Creating Magic in Brands, Business, and Life (Harper Collins): https://www.harpercollins.com/9780062388414/alchemy/ A Few Things Governments Could Learn From Marketers (TEDx): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir00E2gVOyg For more brand strategy thinking: https://www.theconceptbureau.com/